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Post by GSC Admin on Mar 15, 2004 17:35:16 GMT -5
Exactly, I think all of us are now on the same wavelenght here. I respect PFG and their continued efforts, however, I have a different opinion of what should be done. I agree with James, it is sad that we have this you are with me or against me thing. I never have done that and will not. I have always said we are here to discuss Gore and the issues that effect us the most. But I am not going to let it affect me because I know I am not the divider here.
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Post by BillC on Mar 15, 2004 18:25:06 GMT -5
Perhaps the more rational thinkers and balanced individuals who have for a long time participated in or followed this effort can now move on to a constructive activism that will contribute toward bringing together issues and a Democratic Party victory in November.
Note to Chris:
You've made a postive move. Be at peace with it. It is never an easy thing to display practical, progressive thinking and action while surrounded by others who are consumed by an irrational, relentless, extremist passion. Your example is honorable. Be sure to understand it as such.
- BillC
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Post by GSC Admin on Mar 15, 2004 22:29:36 GMT -5
Seriously, I don't know what to think about her behavior. I knew she was passionate, but this is going a little too far. ======================================= Jan: (Directed towards me) I won't support Kerry for president. I will support AL GORE up until the convention, and will work for that to happen in any way I can, because PFG knows he could BEAT BUSH, unlike those who only push what the DLC shoves down their throats. Then I will simply go vote AGAINST Bush in November. Oh, and quote where Mr.Gore said we have to support JOHN KERRY. Those exact words, please, I want to see the source. And no lame he said to support the nominee garbage. The convention hasn't come yet, and neither is the primary season over. Oh, and do you always make a habit of banning people from your forum simply because they don't agree with you? Boy, did I misjudge you. How disappointing. You can suck up to Mr. Gore all you like, but ir is REAL CONVICTION and PRINCIPLE you will need to be a success in this world. I agree. I think for anyone who isn't a sell out and a hypocrite, the choice is very clear.
Chris: (My reply) Fine you want quotes, here is quotes: Gore, who endorsed Howard Dean for the nomination, complimented the former Vermont governor on his decision to speak out against the war in Iraq, for bringing new people into the party and for raising money through grass roots on the Internet. "I appreciate what he's done about giving the party it's voice back," he said of Dean, who, along with fellow candidates John Kerry, Dennis Kucinich and Al Sharpton, did not attend the Tennessee event. Despite who wins Tennessee on Tuesday, Gore called on Democrats to unite behind their nominee, saying "any of these candidates are better than George W. Bush." I don't know what else you need to see. Gore has said over and over that he is not running and bascially he would not join the race now. The draft is now out of question with John Kerry winning the needed amount of delegates. Calling someone a suck up and a sell out and hypocrite is also very unprofessional for someone running a campaign. If you can't handle someone's personal decesion and descretion, I don't think you should run the PFG campaign. I simply stated the obvious at GSC and you took it upon yourself to trash our site. You not only called me a sellout you questioned the site's motives. Then you delete your main account and say you don't want to post there anymore, then today you create a new account then delete it. I did ban you. What do you expect. I am not going to allow this trashing of people who disagree with you. No one is criticizing your efforts, which are honorable, but your behavior and intolerance of others. Friends don't call friends names and don't leave them when they have different opinions. If you can't see that, it is not my problem. Chris
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Post by ErinB on Mar 15, 2004 22:57:41 GMT -5
She isn't here anymore so lets try to let it go and not go any further. Its just feelings talking now. paging earthmother....
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Post by bluebutterfly on Mar 16, 2004 8:37:58 GMT -5
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Julia
GSC Senior Member
GO GET HIM AL GORE!
Posts: 85
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Post by Julia on Mar 16, 2004 10:13:21 GMT -5
No kidding bluebutterfly, it makes me laugh too just hearing that the busherites are saying: "if ____________ can't back up his claims, then he's lying....." good logic, just too funny considering the source!
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Post by hangingchad on Mar 16, 2004 10:25:42 GMT -5
Chris, I've only been a part of this board for a relatively short time (although I've been a Gore supporter since at least 1988!!!!), but even in that short time I have consistently seen what a class act you are, and how fairly you run this site. Unfortunately, in my time on the internet, I have experienced a truly horrifying message board moderator--I mean beyond anything you can possibly imagine and it would sound fictional if I tried to even describe it to you. Therefore, having experienced what I believe and can only hope and pray is the absolute worst in a message board moderator, I feel that I have an especially keen appreciation of GOOD message board/forum moderators and well-run boards. This is one of them!!!!!! For example, you allow freedom of speech here, even when the poster is angry with you, and you run things in a very fair and class-act manner that results in an environment that is at once safe and on-topic, yet free-flowing and not heavy-handed.
When I first joined, I had my little " Dean moment " when I incorrectly thought I had detected some heavy-handedness--you see, my "heavy-handedness" meter/alarm is extremely over-sensitive due to the aforementioned truly horrific experience with a message board moderator on an unrelated board way back when. However, all that had happened was that you had moved my post to a more appropriate section and there was nothing but that to it. Even though I had a very knee-jerk, public, post-traumatic-stress-syndrome-like flashback moment about it and posted a huffy post and deleted my account, you were very classy and kind in your response and simply explained why the post was moved. You did not get overly sensitive as I had done. You remained calm, fair and kind about it. That told me a lot about the way you run this site. I had already concluded before seeing your response that I had over-reacted, big-time, but then seeing how you handled it really put me to shame! I think you are a model of how to run an internet forum!
And now seeing how you have handled this situation in the same steady-as-she-goes, fair fashion, even though tempers and emotions are running very high all around you, just makes me admire the way you run the site even more.
Hopefully, everyone will realize that we are all on the same side here. We all greatly respect, appreciate and admire Al Gore. We all share certain common values and issues of concern that drew us to him and what he stands for in the first place, yet we are all individuals and we disagree sometimes, including on what is the best way for those of us who support Al Gore and what he stands for to proceed. That is just fine and it is only a shame that anyone would take that so personally or paint it as that there is only one right way to proceed right now. I think we all sense that we are at an important crossroads in history--as a nation and as a world. Of course passions and emotions run high. I think everyone I've come across so far who participates in this board is a beautiful person and I hope everyone will return here and cooler heads will prevail. I think the way you run the board, Chris, and the tone that you set, paves the way for that to happen anytime anyone chooses to take the hand extended to them.
I think you truly conduct yourself in a way that your mentor, Al Gore, would be very proud of. In these very emotional, frustrating, confusing times, may we all remember to try to treat each other as we would want to be treated. That is what it is all about, really.
Peace out!
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Post by BillC on Mar 16, 2004 13:05:45 GMT -5
Note to Chris:
Listen, the kind of extremism that had been brought to bear on this Forum was an embarrassment, plain and simple. A horrible storm has moved on, and the AGSC skies have cleared. You've done well and held a steady course. Credits to you for coming out on the other side of all this with a balanced frame of mind intact.
- BillC
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Post by earthmother on Mar 16, 2004 16:38:35 GMT -5
Okay, I've been M.I.A. all day due to some personal distress from my recent surgery, etc., but I've gotta put my two cents in here.
1) I think it's unbecoming for anyone on this forum, whether administrator, moderator, or poster, to attack or talk publicly in a disparaging way about any individual who has posted here. If there are personal rifts brewing, I think it behooves all of us to keep them off-board.
2) I'm having a little trouble being told by some on this board that those of us at PFG were an embarrassment to Gore and to others on this forum. As I said yesterday, we will all arrive at our end point for trying to get Gore in at a different time. Those of us who formed PFG and did our damnedest to keep the flame burning are not an embarrassment to anyone. Suppose a brokered convention, which was a very real possibility in the beginning, had happened. Were we wrong for trying to keep Gore's name in the forefront? I don't think so. Now, with the way things have gone, I won't say our efforts are an embarrassment, but I do agree that we need to change our tack. I don't think it's right to criticize someone for having a dream and fighting for it. There does, however, come a point (different for everyone), when the fight must end, and given how difficult it is to accept the end, a little support would be nice. Maybe it'll give new meaning to the Al Gore Support Center?
3) I would urge all of us to continue to treat each other with respect on this forum. Who knows where this road is going? Will Kerry win? Or will the Bush/Rove machine succeed in flattening yet another Democratic nominee? I guess all I'm saying is we need each other now, and we may REALLY need each other come November if things don't go our way. Let's try to be tolerant of different viewpoints and continue respecting people on this forum, even if we don't fully agree with their viewpoints.
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Post by GSC Admin on Mar 16, 2004 18:00:44 GMT -5
No one said people who were working with PFG could not discuss the effort. It was Jan who left when she said we bailed out on her. No one said the effort was an embarrassment. I along with other simply said now, I repeat now, since John Kerry has more than enough delegates, and there is no chance of a brokered convention, the continuation of this effort could cause a distraction for the Democratic party or possible cause a problem for Al himself. We all know how the media pounces on everything that is related to Al. I could see it now, say Fox News reporting that a bunch of extremists supporters are sabotagoing the Kerry campaign in hope he would lose and Gore run in 2008. That is the way the media works. They make conclusions on things that are false and usually drag someone in that is not even involved. And I for one do not want that to happen to Al.
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Post by earthmother on Mar 16, 2004 18:42:17 GMT -5
Well, Chris, I'd only disagree in you saying that no one said what we were doing at PFG was an embarrassment, as in: But I won't belabor that point.
As for any of our efforts causing problems now (or even then), it's doubtful. There were never enough of us to be anything more than a small ripple in the ocean. Which, of course, was part of the problem. And I believe that if the media were to pick up on our activities, since we're totally divorced from Gore (and we have published disclaimers to any affiliation with Gore in all of our literature), all they would say is, "Hmm, there are some people who still want this guy so badly they're willing to fight despite insurmountable odds." I wouldn't worry about this reflecting poorly on Gore. If I thought there were any chance of that, I'd never have been involved in it.
Beyond that, I'd hate to see GSC become a "bitch board" against Jan or anyone else. We all know that it takes a strong mind and a strong will (to say nothing of a strong stomach) to succeed in a tough battle. Jan stayed the course and continues to fight, despite personal attacks against her, despite infinitesimal odds, despite everything, and I think she deserves credit for that, even if you don't agree with her ways. But above all else, I think it's wrong to talk about people when they're not even here to defend themselves anymore.
I hope we will all continue posting here and understand that this whole nightmare, ever since the disaster in 2000, has been rough on everyone. We need to stick together now and deal with reality and with the future. And we also need to tolerate and respect each other's differences.
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Post by ErinB on Mar 17, 2004 9:50:18 GMT -5
Earthmother Rocks!! Thanks EM, you have a unique ability to cut through all this and get to the heart of the matter.
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Post by bluebutterfly on Mar 23, 2004 18:09:07 GMT -5
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Post by earthmother on Mar 24, 2004 12:29:19 GMT -5
Thanks for the link, BB. It's heartening to see the efforts that are springing up in reaction to the thought of another four years of Bush.
I only wish these tens of thousands of voters in Florida had been registered and voted in 2000. Things would be very different today.
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Post by earthmother on Mar 24, 2004 17:38:05 GMT -5
I see that Thursday is the night for all good Democrats to unite behind Kerry, who now officially has enough delegates in his pocket to win the nomination in July. I don't care what anyone says (and I'm sure I'll be jumped on by some in this forum), but having John Kerry in the White House simply doesn't thrill me the way having Al Gore would have. I will vote for him, yes, because I despise Bush with a depth of my soul that I have never felt for another human being in my entire life. But I am heavy-hearted, and I ache for the man who should be President. To see him at this event, supporting another candidate rather than himself, will be extremely painful for me. I give him enormous credit for being able to put aside his personal aspirations and dreams for the sake of his party and his country, but I mourn for the Presidency that should have been.
But that is in the past, and we must look to the future, and I hope Gore continues to be my voice, for there is no one else in the political arena who speaks for me as well as he does.
He will always be my President.
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